UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

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Re: UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

Postby rumple03 » Nov 7. 2013, 23:56

Gogh wrote:are people arguing gsp post-serra ko is a finisher or even remotely attempts to finish when an opportunity presents itself? :shock:

props to hardy for being tough, but gsp couldnt finish a completely locked in armbar. and if condit had koscheck's eye looking like it did, then he wouldve thrown a lot of nasty combos with very bad intentions. as dendra correctly pointed out, gsp did not, he just jabbed his way to the finish line


Of all the GSP fights I have seen, the Hardy fight is the one I will agree with many people, GSP fan or not, was pretty bad. Not because of lack of skill etc... but because GSP was clearly outclassing Hardy in every aspect, and prob could have lit him up on the feet. As for the sub attempt where he almost ripped Hardy's arm off, I think many people are not giving Hardy the credit he deserves for escaping that arm bar with sheer determination and pain tolerance. If it had not been GSP he escaped from, all the accolades would be towards Hardy getting out of it, but because it's GSP his haters use that specific moment to point out that he can't even submit people, when in fact he has 6 sub victories.

I am not arguing that GSP fights safe (or some could say smart), I am merely pointing out that GSP was never a power puncher, that he is far from a LnP fighter as Dendra consistently refers to him as, that he does actually throw strikes with bad intentions, he just doesn't have the power to seriously hurt the most durable guys.

Listening to Dendra rant about GSP it's always "GSP LnP and humps guys for 5 rounds", "GSP is a robot", "GSP runs from a fight rather than engage" etc... etc.... etc.... Proof is in the stats I provided. It's this blind bias that makes many people on this forum not put much stock into anything he has to say when it comes to the topic of GSP. I don't know if he is trolling to get a rise out of people, or if he is just that blind.

I bet if Aldo was as popular in NA as GSP is, was American or Canadian instead of Brazilian, Dendra and his type would be all over Aldo saying he can't finish fights, only knows how to throw leg kicks but doesn't throw combo's, etc... but because he isn't as well known, isn't as popular, he gets a pass on the fact that he has almost as many 5 round decisions as GSP does in the last 5 or 6 fights.

The truth is, that there is a tendency in certain % of population to dislike success. You can see this in sports, music artists, actors, etc... For example, everyone knows one or several people who love some bands or artists when they are flying under the radar a bit, but then as soon as they become successful and everybody is listening to them, now they're sellouts or they suck. The same applies to the UFC, as they became more popular, those same types of people now bash the UFC, bash Dana etc... and you even see it now in forums that Bellator as it becomes a bit more popular people turning on Rebney and Bellator. To me, Dendra is the epitome of that personality type.

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Re: UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

Postby rumple03 » Nov 8. 2013, 00:24

Dendra wrote:You haven't disputed the fact GSP couldn't submit Dan Hardy in five rounds and after one failed attempt decided to just lnp.


I will admit that fight was less than stellar on GSP's part, prob one of the only fights I watched and was like "George, you are outclassing this guy, stop playing with him and put him away". But one of your raper fighters AS toyed with Miaia and Leites in prob two of the most disgraceful displays of MMA and sportsmanship to happen inside the UFC.

But I also give Hardy credit for escaping that armbar. It was tight and you could see the pain on Hardy's face. But guess what, lots of great submission fighters don't get the sub because their opponent escapes from it. For example, Paul Harris vs Belcher, as soon as that hit the ground everyone was yelling "Belcher scramble and get to your feet you dummy", but he successfully defended how many leg lock subs from a leg lock specialist at that. It happens.

Dendra wrote:You haven't disputed the fact GSP did nothing but jab Koschek for five rounds, not once considering a possible uppercut or a combo that would finish the fight.


Please explain to me in your great wisdom how an uppercut or combo would have magically finished the fight? Kos wasn't out on his feet, he just had one messed up eye. He still had power, still had stamina, and was still throwing hay makers like mad hoping to catch GSP.

Dendra wrote:You haven't disputed the fact GSP did nothing but hop from controlling Diaz from one side to the other, never even considering taking his back to go for a submission or allow any kind of grappling exchanges on the ground.
Etc.


OK so what you are saying is GSP should have played into Diaz' strength as a so-called elite level grappler, and given up top position just to prove a point to Diaz' fans that he either could or couldn't hang with Diaz in a pure grappling match? Not sure what fight you watched, but I saw GSP go for several sub attempts, and saw Diaz lie in a turtle position for almost every sec the fight was on the mat. The so-called badass BJJ fighter had zero offense on the mat, but dorks like you are bitching about GSP for not rolling around with Diaz instead of bitching about Diaz' shitty performance. I know, I know, it's GSP's fault that Diaz was shitty because GSP wouldn't give up top position. If only GSP had given Diaz some openings, then man we woulda seen Diaz really shine then.

Dendra wrote:But ok, let's pretend I'm an idiot and GSP has any killer instinct left in him. If you don't think GSP is at times overly cautious, you are the idiot. I rest my case.


I'm still on the fence about whether you are an idiot, I'll reserve judgement for now, but what I do know is that when it comes to GSP you can't help but let your bias against him shine through in your statements.

I don't think there is a fan of the sport who doesn't knows that GSP approaches his fights in a very cerebral, tactical manner that outlines the safest and surest result for success. Is this a result of lack of killer instinct or is it more a result of realizing that being successful as champ brings with it a lot more rewards outside the cage. GSP is as much a business man as he is a fighter. When he talks legacy, he is thinking on a much bigger scale than just what he does inside the cage. He sees the bigger picture.

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Re: UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

Postby Gogh » Nov 8. 2013, 00:32

rumple03 wrote:
Gogh wrote:are people arguing gsp post-serra ko is a finisher or even remotely attempts to finish when an opportunity presents itself? :shock:

props to hardy for being tough, but gsp couldnt finish a completely locked in armbar. and if condit had koscheck's eye looking like it did, then he wouldve thrown a lot of nasty combos with very bad intentions. as dendra correctly pointed out, gsp did not, he just jabbed his way to the finish line


Of all the GSP fights I have seen, the Hardy fight is the one I will agree with many people, GSP fan or not, was pretty bad. Not because of lack of skill etc... but because GSP was clearly outclassing Hardy in every aspect, and prob could have lit him up on the feet. As for the sub attempt where he almost ripped Hardy's arm off, I think many people are not giving Hardy the credit he deserves for escaping that arm bar with sheer determination and pain tolerance. If it had not been GSP he escaped from, all the accolades would be towards Hardy getting out of it, but because it's GSP his haters use that specific moment to point out that he can't even submit people, when in fact he has 6 sub victories.

I am not arguing that GSP fights safe (or some could say smart), I am merely pointing out that GSP was never a power puncher, that he is far from a LnP fighter as Dendra consistently refers to him as, that he does actually throw strikes with bad intentions, he just doesn't have the power to seriously hurt the most durable guys.

Listening to Dendra rant about GSP it's always "GSP LnP and humps guys for 5 rounds", "GSP is a robot", "GSP runs from a fight rather than engage" etc... etc.... etc.... Proof is in the stats I provided. It's this blind bias that makes many people on this forum not put much stock into anything he has to say when it comes to the topic of GSP. I don't know if he is trolling to get a rise out of people, or if he is just that blind.

I bet if Aldo was as popular in NA as GSP is, was American or Canadian instead of Brazilian, Dendra and his type would be all over Aldo saying he can't finish fights, only knows how to throw leg kicks but doesn't throw combo's, etc... but because he isn't as well known, isn't as popular, he gets a pass on the fact that he has almost as many 5 round decisions as GSP does in the last 5 or 6 fights.

The truth is, that there is a tendency in certain % of population to dislike success. You can see this in sports, music artists, actors, etc... For example, everyone knows one or several people who love some bands or artists when they are flying under the radar a bit, but then as soon as they become successful and everybody is listening to them, now they're sellouts or they suck. The same applies to the UFC, as they became more popular, those same types of people now bash the UFC, bash Dana etc... and you even see it now in forums that Bellator as it becomes a bit more popular people turning on Rebney and Bellator. To me, Dendra is the epitome of that personality type.

i hear ya rumble. for me im not hating on gsp for not attempting to finish many opponents post-serra ko. im simply making an observation. im calling it how i see it

gsp is an amazing fighter and ive grown to appreciate how he fights. ill admit i use to hate on his style but time has changed that. all im saying is post serra ko he doesnt like to take risks and burn a lot of energy in an attempt to finish an opponent
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Re: UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

Postby rumple03 » Nov 8. 2013, 00:34

Saku+Loki wrote:
Dendra wrote:However, a perfect example of a creative fighter who engages a lot is Dominick Cruz - he doesn't have the finishing power (unlike GSP who chooses not to go for a finish), he constantly engages and he found a way to do it while minimizing danger to himself.

It's funny you bring up Cruz because he's a perfect example of what we are talking about. Loads of skills (though his shuffle bump step, or whatever you call it, is awkward as hell to watch), great gas tank and yes he goes for the victories.

In 3 round fights.

The absolute second that Dom hit 5 round fights he has started going the distance to decision (this is in my dusty memory, I don't follow Cruz that close, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember him getting a stoppage after winning the WEC belt or entering the UFC).

Why?

He has great competition, like GSP, and doesn't have the luxury of being able to go balls to the wall and blow his wad, because he's in a marathon, not a sprint.

Put GSP in a 3 round fight and you will see a very different fighter.


I agree, if GSP lost his belt and decided he did want to keep fighting, his game plans would be entirely different and would likely be looking to finish the fight as quickly as possible, because he no longer has anything to lose.
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Re: UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

Postby rumple03 » Nov 8. 2013, 00:39

Gogh wrote:
rumple03 wrote:
Gogh wrote:are people arguing gsp post-serra ko is a finisher or even remotely attempts to finish when an opportunity presents itself? :shock:

props to hardy for being tough, but gsp couldnt finish a completely locked in armbar. and if condit had koscheck's eye looking like it did, then he wouldve thrown a lot of nasty combos with very bad intentions. as dendra correctly pointed out, gsp did not, he just jabbed his way to the finish line


Of all the GSP fights I have seen, the Hardy fight is the one I will agree with many people, GSP fan or not, was pretty bad. Not because of lack of skill etc... but because GSP was clearly outclassing Hardy in every aspect, and prob could have lit him up on the feet. As for the sub attempt where he almost ripped Hardy's arm off, I think many people are not giving Hardy the credit he deserves for escaping that arm bar with sheer determination and pain tolerance. If it had not been GSP he escaped from, all the accolades would be towards Hardy getting out of it, but because it's GSP his haters use that specific moment to point out that he can't even submit people, when in fact he has 6 sub victories.

I am not arguing that GSP fights safe (or some could say smart), I am merely pointing out that GSP was never a power puncher, that he is far from a LnP fighter as Dendra consistently refers to him as, that he does actually throw strikes with bad intentions, he just doesn't have the power to seriously hurt the most durable guys.

Listening to Dendra rant about GSP it's always "GSP LnP and humps guys for 5 rounds", "GSP is a robot", "GSP runs from a fight rather than engage" etc... etc.... etc.... Proof is in the stats I provided. It's this blind bias that makes many people on this forum not put much stock into anything he has to say when it comes to the topic of GSP. I don't know if he is trolling to get a rise out of people, or if he is just that blind.

I bet if Aldo was as popular in NA as GSP is, was American or Canadian instead of Brazilian, Dendra and his type would be all over Aldo saying he can't finish fights, only knows how to throw leg kicks but doesn't throw combo's, etc... but because he isn't as well known, isn't as popular, he gets a pass on the fact that he has almost as many 5 round decisions as GSP does in the last 5 or 6 fights.

The truth is, that there is a tendency in certain % of population to dislike success. You can see this in sports, music artists, actors, etc... For example, everyone knows one or several people who love some bands or artists when they are flying under the radar a bit, but then as soon as they become successful and everybody is listening to them, now they're sellouts or they suck. The same applies to the UFC, as they became more popular, those same types of people now bash the UFC, bash Dana etc... and you even see it now in forums that Bellator as it becomes a bit more popular people turning on Rebney and Bellator. To me, Dendra is the epitome of that personality type.

i hear ya rumble. for me im not hating on gsp for not attempting to finish many opponents post-serra ko. im simply making an observation. im calling it how i see it

gsp is an amazing fighter and ive grown to appreciate how he fights. ill admit i use to hate on his style but time has changed that. all im saying is post serra ko he doesnt like to take risks and burn a lot of energy in an attempt to finish an opponent


I don't think it's entirely because of being KO'd by Serra, I think it's more related to losing the belt and then becoming the champ and staying the champ. Remember that after losing to Serra he finished Serra to get the belt back. That's when he adopted a different approach to fights, because he wants to remain the champ and not take it for granted like he did before.
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Re: UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

Postby Gogh » Nov 8. 2013, 00:48

rumple03 wrote:I don't think it's entirely because of being KO'd by Serra, I think it's more related to losing the belt and then becoming the champ and staying the champ. Remember that after losing to Serra he finished Serra to get the belt back. That's when he adopted a different approach to fights, because he wants to remain the champ and not take it for granted like he did before.

i agree with ya. the serra ko is a turning point in gsp's career. whatever the reason is, this is when gsp changed

id also like to repeat something i said earlier in the thread. i agree with sonnen when he said the following on a joe rogan podcast: put gsp in 3 round fights and he will start finishing opponents again. it's a matter of energy. humans arent made to go balls-to-the-wall for 3 rounds let alone 5 rounds. fighters burn a lot of energy going for the finish and gsp's game is designed to conserve energy (ie throwing jabs instead of power hooks, or lnp'ing instead of squeezing on sub attempts)

in the same podcast sonnen also talked about something eddie alvarez told him. eddie told sonnen...if you go for the finish, then youll lose the decision. note: eddie also told sonnen that he trains to go for the finish

here's the podcast if anyone is interested:

based on skill set, jose aldo is the best p4p fighter in the world

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Re: UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

Postby Gogh » Nov 8. 2013, 11:43

KingAnon wrote:
Rex Fortune wrote:Hendricks's has a hot wife.

Also, Charlie Brennaman took Hendricks down. Rick Story could control him along the cage. I'm sure Johnny is better but so is GSP


& Koscheck took him down in Rounds 2 & 3, no idea how Hendricks even won that fight after only winning Round 1 clearly losing the 2nd & 3rd.

If Koscheck can take Hendricks down, GSP will be able to as well.

go to 4:50
based on skill set, jose aldo is the best p4p fighter in the world

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Re: UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

Postby Loki » Nov 8. 2013, 21:44

What wrestler, heck what fighter, has been able to consistently stuff GSP's double-leg?

If he can dump BJ, a man that's the love child of a Weeble and Gumby, he can dump anyone.

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Re: UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

Postby Dendra » Nov 8. 2013, 22:41

rumple03 wrote:Listening to Dendra rant about GSP it's always "GSP LnP and humps guys for 5 rounds", "GSP is a robot", "GSP runs from a fight rather than engage" etc... etc.... etc.... Proof is in the stats I provided.


I never said GSP runs from a fight. He also happens to have pretty vicious gnp but he refuses to create any space because creating space for his gnp would also create space for a miracle submission to happen. GSP is completely paranoid of losing.


I bet if Aldo was as popular in NA as GSP is, was American or Canadian instead of Brazilian, Dendra and his type would be all over Aldo saying he can't finish fights, only knows how to throw leg kicks but doesn't throw combo's, etc... but because he isn't as well known, isn't as popular, he gets a pass on the fact that he has almost as many 5 round decisions as GSP does in the last 5 or 6 fights.

I hope you don't bet for real money with that logic. People saying GSP is overly cautious has nothing to do with him being a superstar.

Yes, he is under a lot more criticism for every tiny little mistake, but that doesn't mean everything he is criticized for is directly linked to his popularity. There is a ton of fighters out there who play ultra safe and they all get criticized for it - explain that, wise guy.


The same applies to the UFC, as they became more popular, those same types of people now bash the UFC, bash Dana etc... and you even see it now in forums that Bellator as it becomes a bit more popular people turning on Rebney and Bellator. To me, Dendra is the epitome of that personality type.


Yes, people hate success but are you that retarded to think that people are hating on Bellator because it's getting bigger or "more popular"? People are hating on Rebney and Bellator because of what they did to Eddie Alvarez. It was the ugliest scam in the history of MMA far as I know. So learn to differentiate jealous haters from genuine dislike.


OK so what you are saying is GSP should have played into Diaz' strength as a so-called elite level grappler, and given up top position....The so-called badass BJJ fighter had zero offense on the mat...


I never said GSP should've given up top position, I said he could've taken Diaz back and go for a finish - Cain Velasquez at least has a digestible reason why he avoids going for rnc, cuz he prefers to gnp his opponents into oblivion, not to score points, not to play ping pong, but to beat them up and defeat them.

And the zero offense part - GSP kept hopping from one side to the other to prevent Diaz from rolling and creating any kind of scramble, he was playing an all-out 100% defense. Your logic here is identical to the idiots who are clapping their hands for Brendan Schaub surviving against Cyborg for 20 minutes when all he did was 100% defend.
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Re: UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

Postby GTMMA13 » Nov 8. 2013, 23:13

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Re: UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Hendricks - Episode 2

Postby rumple03 » Nov 9. 2013, 16:24

Dendra wrote:
rumple03 wrote:Listening to Dendra rant about GSP it's always "GSP LnP and humps guys for 5 rounds", "GSP is a robot", "GSP runs from a fight rather than engage" etc... etc.... etc.... Proof is in the stats I provided.


I never said GSP runs from a fight. He also happens to have pretty vicious gnp but he refuses to create any space because creating space for his gnp would also create space for a miracle submission to happen. GSP is completely paranoid of losing.

Maybe he is paranoid about losing, and what exactly is wrong with that? It might lead to a fighting style you don't like, but if he is controlling a guy from top position on the ground, and is able to control the fight standing, then why take a risk that gives your opponent a chance to counter? In my opinion, it's up to his opponent to create those chances, not for GSP to give them to them just because he should be more willing to give them up.

I bet if Aldo was as popular in NA as GSP is, was American or Canadian instead of Brazilian, Dendra and his type would be all over Aldo saying he can't finish fights, only knows how to throw leg kicks but doesn't throw combo's, etc... but because he isn't as well known, isn't as popular, he gets a pass on the fact that he has almost as many 5 round decisions as GSP does in the last 5 or 6 fights.

I hope you don't bet for real money with that logic. People saying GSP is overly cautious has nothing to do with him being a superstar.

Yes, he is under a lot more criticism for every tiny little mistake, but that doesn't mean everything he is criticized for is directly linked to his popularity. There is a ton of fighters out there who play ultra safe and they all get criticized for it - explain that, wise guy.

My point stands, Aldo is only really known by hard core MMA fans, maybe a small % of casual fans know anything about the guy, but because Aldo can land vicious leg kicks, he gets a pass on the fact that he has almost as many 5 round decisions as GSP, but takes zero criticism for it. Under your logic it is because you think Aldo goes for a finish and GSP doesn't, ask Fitch and Penn if they thought GSP wasn't trying to take their head off.


The same applies to the UFC, as they became more popular, those same types of people now bash the UFC, bash Dana etc... and you even see it now in forums that Bellator as it becomes a bit more popular people turning on Rebney and Bellator. To me, Dendra is the epitome of that personality type.


Yes, people hate success but are you that retarded to think that people are hating on Bellator because it's getting bigger or "more popular"? People are hating on Rebney and Bellator because of what they did to Eddie Alvarez. It was the ugliest scam in the history of MMA far as I know. So learn to differentiate jealous haters from genuine dislike.

Actually, there has been a gradual hate and dislike brewing on the forums towards Bellator before the Alverez situation, it comes with becoming more popular because with more eyes watching, more decisions are scrutinized by more eyes. Seemed to me, that it started with the whole heavyweight tourny fiasco and Fedor getting his ass handed to him.

OK so what you are saying is GSP should have played into Diaz' strength as a so-called elite level grappler, and given up top position....The so-called badass BJJ fighter had zero offense on the mat...


I never said GSP should've given up top position, I said he could've taken Diaz back and go for a finish - Cain Velasquez at least has a digestible reason why he avoids going for rnc, cuz he prefers to gnp his opponents into oblivion, not to score points, not to play ping pong, but to beat them up and defeat them.

Why didn't Diaz take guard instead of playing turtle, why didn't he risk getting GnP'd by GSP from top position, if in Diaz' own words GSP hits like girl. If he doesn't hit very hard, then take guard an eat some elbows and punches while working for a triangle or an armbar. After all Diaz is known for his amazing chin. Why play it safe leaving zero openings for GSP to punch him in the head? If you had an unbiased viewpoint toward GSP you would see the logic in those statements. Anyone can say "why didn't GSP do this" but you can say the exact same thing for his opponent.

And the zero offense part - GSP kept hopping from one side to the other to prevent Diaz from rolling and creating any kind of scramble, he was playing an all-out 100% defense. Your logic here is identical to the idiots who are clapping their hands for Brendan Schaub surviving against Cyborg for 20 minutes when all he did was 100% defend.


Lol, again it's GSP's fault for being smart enough to realize that Diaz' likely only offense from the turtle position was to try and roll for an ankle or hope GSP tries to sink an arm in for a RNC allowing Diaz to counter with an arm lock. How many times has Diaz been submitted in an MMA fight? Probably zero, maybe once. Again, why play into Diaz' strength if he didn't have to. Why wasn't Diaz more aggressive? Why didn't Diaz just stand up and eat a few punches on the way up from the guy who hits like a girl?

By your logic, GSP should try to TKO guys who have never been TKO'd prior to fighting GSP and try to submit guys who haven't been submitted by anyone prior to fighting GSP. You would make an amazing MMA strategist and game planner, your fighters would have a perfect record of zero wins because you'd have them in every disadvantageous position imaginable, and then blame the other fighter for not giving your guys the openings they needed to finish them. Sounds familiar, Diaz fanboyz !
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