Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby Hambolavirus » Oct 29. 2013, 10:03

I really don't think the whole sexism argument holds water...
As great to watch as Sanchez vs Melendez was, Diego is gonna be a vegetable if he has too many more of those types of fights. There is this pervasive notion in MMA that you're some kind of 'pussy' if you give up. This worries me because it might just give the lefty bleeding-hearts the reason they've been looking for to ban this brilliant sport(ie. A death in the cage). MMA fighters are my heroes because they have the courage to put their lives on the line, in what I see as the truest competition two human beings can partake in. But like any competition, when the question of "who's the better man/woman" has been answered.. then to continue, at the risk of long term damage, or even death, is a dangerous folly.. Male or Female.

So you 'invented' kicking someone in the face? Really? Go eat another f*cking pie, Steven Seagal!
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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby freeindeed » Oct 29. 2013, 12:20

Hambolavirus wrote:I really don't think the whole sexism argument holds water...
As great to watch as Sanchez vs Melendez was, Diego is gonna be a vegetable if he has too many more of those types of fights. There is this pervasive notion in MMA that you're some kind of 'pussy' if you give up. This worries me because it might just give the lefty bleeding-hearts the reason they've been looking for to ban this brilliant sport(ie. A death in the cage). MMA fighters are my heroes because they have the courage to put their lives on the line, in what I see as the truest competition two human beings can partake in. But like any competition, when the question of "who's the better man/woman" has been answered.. then to continue, at the risk of long term damage, or even death, is a dangerous folly.. Male or Female.


I agree with what you are saying, but the point is that a male fight would definitely not have been stopped, therefore a female should have the right to continue as well.

Otherwise there needs to be seperate rules, otherwise maybe they shouldn't fight at all...

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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby araven » Oct 29. 2013, 17:23

freeindeed wrote:
Hambolavirus wrote:I really don't think the whole sexism argument holds water...
As great to watch as Sanchez vs Melendez was, Diego is gonna be a vegetable if he has too many more of those types of fights. There is this pervasive notion in MMA that you're some kind of 'pussy' if you give up. This worries me because it might just give the lefty bleeding-hearts the reason they've been looking for to ban this brilliant sport(ie. A death in the cage). MMA fighters are my heroes because they have the courage to put their lives on the line, in what I see as the truest competition two human beings can partake in. But like any competition, when the question of "who's the better man/woman" has been answered.. then to continue, at the risk of long term damage, or even death, is a dangerous folly.. Male or Female.


I agree with what you are saying, but the point is that a male fight would definitely not have been stopped, therefore a female should have the right to continue as well.

Otherwise there needs to be seperate rules, otherwise maybe they shouldn't fight at all...


Whaat? I think it likely that a male fight so onesided would have been stopped, I am starting to think they let the women tee off onesided like this just to prove that they wont stop them "just bec they are women". I would def have called for a male fight like that to be stopped. Where was the competition? This is supposed to be a sport.
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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby araven » Oct 29. 2013, 17:27

Ppl were calling for the cain vs junior fight to be stopped, junior always had a sporting chance... I wanted that stopped bec I want to see junior for a long time in the future. Here I wanted it stopped bec Rosi didnt have a sporting chance IMO.
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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby freeindeed » Oct 29. 2013, 18:02

The punching power of females is much less. JDS & Diego Sanchez took much worse beating than Rosi did. She had a will to continue, was walking forward and covering up. I do not believe any male fight would have been stopped in the same circumstances, and I believe viewers were influenced by Rogan's commentary.
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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby Lucky » Oct 29. 2013, 18:05

freeindeed wrote:The punching power of females is much less. JDS & Diego Sanchez took much worse beating than Rosi did. She had a will to continue, was walking forward and covering up. I do not believe any male fight would have been stopped in the same circumstances, and I believe viewers were influenced by Rogan's commentary.


In a way, you've proven your point by inadvertently proving Joe's. You're right that women have less power. You're right that men wouldn't have been stopped. Because if Rosi had been a man and had been hit that often with a man's power, she probably would have been knocked out anyway.

:)

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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby araven » Oct 29. 2013, 19:11

freeindeed wrote:The punching power of females is much less. JDS & Diego Sanchez took much worse beating than Rosi did. She had a will to continue, was walking forward and covering up. I do not believe any male fight would have been stopped in the same circumstances, and I believe viewers were influenced by Rogan's commentary.


I can just reiterate, she was outclassed and took unecessary damage. Andrade had enough power to knock her down with one clean shot, the power from a punch is not so much about muscle power but technique. Women with good technique hit hard. Clearly not as hard as men but they are not fighting men, they are fighting women and women cant take as much punishment as men, so saying that men hit harder means nothing. Id go so far as saying, ok maybe a close call because of Rosi´s defense, ineffective as it was - but she was being outclassed and taking heavy punishment. I think it should have been stopped. It has nothing to do with gender and I have seen male fights stopped for less. I have also seen plenty of males taking a worse beating were the fight hasnt been stopped but IMO that is just wrong. No sporting chance - then ref should put a stop to it no matter what sex.
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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby redeyeddawn » Oct 29. 2013, 20:14

I think I'll maintain some reservation on whether a fight like that should have been stopped. I always thought fighters got the worst of it outside of the actual fight. I'd like a good sports medicine doctor(preferably one who is also a professional fighter) to comment on the true dangers of different types of punishment.

Rosi got dropped once and her face was getting pounded, but it looked to me the doctor that checked her out was trying to be objective. In my opinion rogan was harpin on the fight being stopped too much. From the looks of rosi's face and the fact that she wasn't dropped outside of the shot she took at the end of round 1 i'd also say diego sanchez and jds took a notch more punishment in their matches even relative to the gender difference.

The fighters train 3-5 months and sometimes more just for one fight. Of course some fights should be stopped but if a fight like this is the worse end of things I'd say a more probable cause of a death in mma will be due to an underlying and undisclosed health issue rather than what seems from the outset to be an unbearable or impossible beating. I might change my mind if a medical screening reveals some type of severe or unheard of injury but from what I saw it was an alright or good call to keep the fight going.
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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby araven » Oct 30. 2013, 02:47

Yeah I agree on that any deaths would be a matter of underlying most likely unknown health issues. With oneside fights, I dont think the doc will stop it unless the beatings get really bad.
I think it the refs job to step in and explain to the athlete that it is a mismatch and you simply are getting dominated and it is not good for the sport as a whole. It is impo for the doc to save athletes from long term dmg anyway, they are there to prevent short term dmg. The sport will get a bad rep for mismatches and it seems to be prevalent in the immature womens divisions.
But yeah, Im probably just hoping that would be the way.

Nice to have a discussions with resonable opinions and well-informed individuals! :)
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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby freeindeed » Oct 30. 2013, 05:27

Lucky wrote:
freeindeed wrote:The punching power of females is much less. JDS & Diego Sanchez took much worse beating than Rosi did. She had a will to continue, was walking forward and covering up. I do not believe any male fight would have been stopped in the same circumstances, and I believe viewers were influenced by Rogan's commentary.


In a way, you've proven your point by inadvertently proving Joe's. You're right that women have less power. You're right that men wouldn't have been stopped. Because if Rosi had been a man and had been hit that often with a man's power, she probably would have been knocked out anyway.

:)


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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby greenhorn » Oct 31. 2013, 02:09

andrade is like cyborg junior(ita?).
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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby angst » Oct 31. 2013, 09:29

Hambolavirus wrote:I really don't think the whole sexism argument holds water...
As great to watch as Sanchez vs Melendez was, Diego is gonna be a vegetable if he has too many more of those types of fights. There is this pervasive notion in MMA that you're some kind of 'pussy' if you give up. This worries me because it might just give the lefty bleeding-hearts the reason they've been looking for to ban this brilliant sport(ie. A death in the cage). MMA fighters are my heroes because they have the courage to put their lives on the line, in what I see as the truest competition two human beings can partake in. But like any competition, when the question of "who's the better man/woman" has been answered.. then to continue, at the risk of long term damage, or even death, is a dangerous folly.. Male or Female.


erm its the "rightys" with all the dollars that are keeping mma banned in new york and discredit it in other countries. "lefty bleeding-hearts" are only get listened to when the rich "rightys" have made there decision and want to prove their completely correct.

as to the discussion about the fight, hogan is given too much presidence in the sport, his opinions whatever its about are adopted by peple almost subliminally because they are absorbing his words with the fights, so their recollections have his opinions entwined with the fights.
if the doctor thought she was ok to continue then she was ok to continue, the doctor can only work off what he has; is there a cut, is the vision impaired, is she aware of everything-where she is and so on, does he see symptons of any potential permanent or sever damage.
the rest is up to the ref, as far as i know its not up to the doc to decide how well shes fighting and whether shes outclassed or whether shes defending herself intelligently-thats all the refs responsibility.

imo, it could quite easily have been stopped, but she was the home town girl and seemingly wanted to carry on-these things probably influenced the referees decision.
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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby Hambolavirus » Oct 31. 2013, 10:18

angst wrote:
Hambolavirus wrote:I really don't think the whole sexism argument holds water...
As great to watch as Sanchez vs Melendez was, Diego is gonna be a vegetable if he has too many more of those types of fights. There is this pervasive notion in MMA that you're some kind of 'pussy' if you give up. This worries me because it might just give the lefty bleeding-hearts the reason they've been looking for to ban this brilliant sport(ie. A death in the cage). MMA fighters are my heroes because they have the courage to put their lives on the line, in what I see as the truest competition two human beings can partake in. But like any competition, when the question of "who's the better man/woman" has been answered.. then to continue, at the risk of long term damage, or even death, is a dangerous folly.. Male or Female.


erm its the "rightys" with all the dollars that are keeping mma banned in new york and discredit it in other countries. "lefty bleeding-hearts" are only get listened to when the rich "rightys" have made there decision and want to prove their completely correct.

It's a moot point really.. because at this stage of mma's evolution, if a fighter ends up dying from a brain hemorrhage because he/she was not sufficiently protected by the powers that be.. there will be a mass exodus of mainstream sponsorship/viewers, and the sport will suffer a catastrophic setback. Then you'll see lefties and righties alike stand atop their soap boxes and yell 'I told you so!'. MMA needs to learn what Boxing has known for years.. Someone who's not being punched in the face, needs to keep that towel handy.
So you 'invented' kicking someone in the face? Really? Go eat another f*cking pie, Steven Seagal!
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Re: Rosi Sexton vs Jessica Andrade

Postby Mr. Creosote » Oct 31. 2013, 20:44

Hambolavirus wrote:It's a moot point really.. because at this stage of mma's evolution, if a fighter ends up dying from a brain hemorrhage because he/she was not sufficiently protected by the powers that be.. there will be a mass exodus of mainstream sponsorship/viewers, and the sport will suffer a catastrophic setback. Then you'll see lefties and righties alike stand atop their soap boxes and yell 'I told you so!'. MMA needs to learn what Boxing has known for years.. Someone who's not being punched in the face, needs to keep that towel handy.


While you don't get the same level of repetitive drubbing as in boxing such as that which resulted in the death of Duk Koo Kim, the lighter gloves do result in more damaging shots. However I'm not sure it's the same as getting your head clubbed for 14 rounds as happened to Kim.

The corner stoppage is underutilized in MMA. Rosi was clearly outclassed, getting whaled on and her corner could probably have thrown in the towel at a couple points. They didn't and hopefully Rosi isn't too much the worse for wear. I wonder if the role of cannon fodder is perhaps more of an issue in WMMA where there is less depth in the ranks so you have much more variation in skill levels. At least at UFC level fights, you rarely see such a one-sided drubbing among the men, perhaps because there are just more higher calibre fighters in the ranks.

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